Monday, October 30, 2017

Let's All Say It Together: 'Kevin Spacey Deserves to Die'

OK, I'm in the mood for a new asshole -- so let me have it. I have no appreciation for Kevin Spacey the actor -- I can only think of one film of his I've seen, which was nearly 20 years ago ("American Beauty") -- so I'm certainly not defending him as a fan.

I know he's a tiresome closeted queen and all of the negative consequences of that. But given this history, I feel like the attack on his belated coming out is another case of virtue signaling. (Yeah, we GET IT. He shouldn't have hit on a 14-year-old and should have come out sooner. YOU’RE REALLY NOT THAT BRAVE for saying that.) Given the circumstances, he had NO CHOICE but to address his sexuality because the allegation against him essentially outed him. Would it have been better if he'd still denied being gay while acknowledging responsibility for something he admits he probably did?

(My boyfriend PRAISED him for coming out now -- thinking he would dodge the issue again by pretending Anthony Rapp had "misconstrued" something he did. He didn't do that.)

Also, I'm a little concerned with the casual use of the term "pedophile." The high and mighty can call sex -- or in this case attempted sex -- with a 14-year-old pedophilia all they want. But anyone with a brain knows it really means sexual attraction to prepubescent children. The age of consent in many countries around the globe is 14 -- are you ready to call parts of the world "pedophile states"? -- and 14-year-olds can MARRY in the U.S. with parental consent. (So every straight guy who got turned on by Britney Spears's "Hit Me Baby One More Time" is a pedophile too, right?)

What's more, Kevin Spacey is 12 years older than Anthony Rapp, which means he was 25 or 26 when the alleged incident occurred, not 55. (My parents were 17 and 26 when my mom got pregnant with my oldest brother.) From what little I've read, I gather Rapp was at "theater business" party at someone's house. Do we know if Spacey knew how old Rapp was? And where the hell were Rapp's parents/agent/publicist to keep an eye on a CHILD at an adult party? (Spacey is the only one to blame here, but my sister wouldn't let my 14-year-old nephew go to adult parties by himself, so I ask out of concern for a minor.)

As for the notion that he is "conflating" pedophilia with homosexuality, nothing Spacey said does that. The people who choose to conflate the two already think all gays people are pedophiles, so there's not really anything we can do about that.

Spacey obviously made a mistake (and is rumored to have made many others since). But what's the value in piling on when he's tried to accept responsibility?

The debate is really heating up on my Facebook page. To join the conversation, add me HERE.

UPDATE: I've done little reading on this, but it's come to my attention that some people are actually blaming Anthony Rapp in some way. (I certainly am not and think anyone who does is vile.) But what is the incentive for people to not pull a Trump / trash accusers if they are going to be equally vilified either way? If it turns out he's done something like this -- with a minor -- more than once, then I'll be singing a different tune. But for now it just feels like proportionality is dead.

UPDATE 2: Not surprisingly, more men have come forward accusing Spacey of inappropriate behavior. The guy's obviously got a problem and like with Rapp, I'm glad people are calling him out. Unlike Rapp, these accusers so far are all of age, which bolsters my original thought that I felt that term "pedophile" was being thrown around loosely. For those who are unable to read or think, I have NEVER defended or tried to minimize anything Spacey did to Rapp. I merely said it seemed counterproductive to trash Spacey for both acknowledging he probably did behave grossly inappropriately with Rapp and for him to -- in a separate paragraph and thought from the apology -- to finally come out of the closet. If you think his coming out when he did was wrong, you're entitled to your opinion. But I vividly remember Billie Jean King being sued for palimony by a former female lover and watched her STILL NOT COME OUT -- instead opting to trash the woman in court, portraying her as a "predatory lesbian" who was trying to destroy King's happy (straight!) home with hubby Larry while Billie Jean was actually already with another woman at the time. This left a very bad taste in my mouth -- King didn't officially come out until 1998 -- so I happen to think it was better for Spacey to get it all out now. You don't have to agree with me.

UPDATE 3: Among the many new people to come forward since Rapp's story broke is a guy who says he was 14 when he had a "consensual" sexual relationship with Spacey. (He now realizes there's no such thing as a 14-year-old giving consent with an adult.) I still think sexual attraction to 14-year-olds and 4-year-olds is different. But when 14-year-olds are your pattern, you're obviously a very sick man.


Ray said...

UNWANTED SEXUAL ADVANCES. THAT'S WHAT MAKES HIM AN A**HOLE. I made it though my 20's without forcing myself on anybody - and I was drunk and high a lot. I think you're off base here.

Rex said...

Wow. You really don't get it.

edmcan said...

It's not that I doubt it happened and I do understand why he came out now and all that. It has been an open secret for a long time that Spacey is gay, so that part was no surprise. If you read the statement from Rapp, you'll see that he begged his parents to go to the party alone. Begged. I was involved with theater when I was younger and went to many cast parties with people older than me, just like Rapp. Big difference? When I got bored, I left. When he got bored, he found the bedroom and watched TV-on the bed- until the party was over and he was just lying on someone else's bed when he was discovered by a drunken Spacey. I'm not making any judgements or anything, BUT.....

Montarion said...

Given your own outrage over Kevin Spacey kennethinthe212, I respectfully ask that you reconsider your Mugshot Monday. How can that be titillating when the case discussed involves the abuse of a minor?

Kenneth M. Walsh said...

@Montarion: Dude, you OBVIOUSLY did not read what I wrote about Spacey!

Mike g said...

Omg! Thanks for saying what I was thinking....... now just waiting for the next story obout him.

swine said...

I just don't think you're getting this one right, Kenny. Put yourself in the position of a 14 year old being hit on by someone older & drunk & overly aggressive (& who you have zero interest in). When you're 14, the predator could be 26 or 40 or 50. Doesn't make a diff. It's still scary as hell. I had something similar happen when I was 13 & I was luckily able to get away. But I still think & dream about it over 30 years later. For Spacey to use this as an excuse to finally come out, is really unseemly & icky as hell.

Kenneth M. Walsh said...

@Swine: I'm sure it was a nightmare. But what am I not getting? Spacey has been exposed. Should he be killed now?

jaragon said...

You make some good points- and like you I know people will say I'm victim blaming Rapp.

James Dwight Williamson said...

Anything that reinforces the stupid belief that all gays are naturally pedophiles is a horrible thing. Spacey has done this in spades. I think in that vein, it is an unforgivable act. Given the current political climate, everyone is a sex abuser except our “ not my president “.

DJDeeJay said...

Well, for one thing, he didn't just "hit on" Rapp. That implies he made some harmless, passing flirtatious comment and moved on. He was physically on top of a 14-year-old. So one thing you're "not getting" is that you're minimizing what happened.

Also, what's with this weird question you keep leading to - should he be killed? Hyperbole doesn't help anything here. No one is saying that and you know it. People are made at him - for what he did then and what he's done as an adult (sure, everyone should come out on their own time, but Spacey's been profiting off of people's lack of awareness of his sexuality for decades and now him delaying the inevitable has come to bite him on the ass) - so, you know, they're mad. That's all. Not calling for his death, just mad. But since you were also heartless and bored by the Weinstein scandal, it's no surprise that you're minimizing this situation, too.

Jacob said...

Thank you for making the distinction between pedophillia and hebephillia. As I commented before the word pedohile in connection to gay men is always used against us regardless of the context. They are both equally horrific but why use the p word when it’s not factually correct. Our enemies don’t need added fuel. Aside from that I hope the pig rots. At least his career is in the sh*tter.

Joe said...

OK, let's break this down:

"He shouldn't have hit on a 14 year old." So many levels of bullshit here. First, it wasn't as innocuous as you present. A 14 year old boy on a bed, a 26 year old man tries to get on top of him. That's a little more than 'hit on'. You downplay what actually happened to somehow justify your point. Weak. Let's refresh: adult man, teen-ager.

You set up the argument that the only two options for Spacey was to come out (alongside his attempt at having sex with a teen), or to deny. Actually, no, those aren't the only two choices. A third was to simply admit the wrongdoing and silently deal with the consequences of his behavior. With his coming out and along with his admitting the assault, once again, our community is having to fight back the insidious notion that being gay goes hand in hand with a disgusting proclivity for underage boys. The way you can simply sluff this off is really disappointing. As we've always done as a community, we need to educate the public on who and what we are, and point out where their assumptions are false. Coming out in the same sentence as when you apologize for trying to have sex with a teen-ager reconfirms for people that the two are the same. And we have to fight it back. Again. Reckless and selfish.

With your global lesson on countries that allow their teens to marry and have sex, you've made your view on teens marrying and having sex with adults very clear. I'm teacher have a background in childhood development. A 14 year old is just realizing his sexual personality. To have that muddied and abused by an ADULT is heinous.

Did Spacey know how old Rapp was? Have you SEEN Rapp in The Adventures of Babysitting? Look it up. That's when he was 16 and looked like a fresh-faced kid. At 14 I'm sure he looked even more like a KID. But yeah, stick with the "he looked older" argument. Doesn't seem creepy or disgusting at all.

Your point on Rapp's parents ... yep. I agree. Where the hell were they? But does that mean Kevin was thinking, "Oooooo, look, this kid is alone at my party. Time to fuck him"? That's ok? Come one.

And by the way .... Kevin didn't accept responsibility. He says he doesn't remember. How convenient.

Your post comes off as shallow.

Bill Carter said...

Once again, you're a voice of reason and rationality, and you're getting blasted because of it.

It takes guts and integrity to stay focused on reality when the mob is screaming "Burn the Witch".

Anonymous said...

kenneth, i agree with with you - it appears, we're in the minority.

it didn't take long for words like "rape" and "pedophile" to be casually thrown around in comments, when i haven't heard any claims of sex taking place. at this point, there are no further details, and one accuser.

i believe rapp's story, but asking those who repeatedly stress the victim was a minor where the adults responsible for the child were during the assault, results in being immediately accused of victim blaming...for asking a legitimate question.

spacey's comment was an admission the allegations could be true, i believe he's lying about forgetting the encounter, and i also believe it was no accident they ended up in the house alone together. i've described his behavior as disgusting, creepy, alarming, shocking, disturbing, harrowing, revolting, repellent, repulsive, sickening, nauseating, and horrific - but not rape, and not pedophilia.

pitchforks and torches rule, and the meaning of words don't seem to matter anymore.

LR said...

The issue with the term "pedophilia" is that American English never let the words referring to older minors (hebephilia, ephebophilia) come into full being. They are only bandied about in niche domains and allowed "pedophilia" to be the word for sexual attraction to persons considered minors, no matter how extensive that population is. Dictionary arguments for this one fall to its common usage as much as the words "atheist" or "Nazi." So everything gets wrapped up in "pedophilia," no matter if the second party is prepubescent, pubescent or adolescent. I will not fight here over which of those classes are socially viable to be sexually attracted to.
The issue with the term "rape" is that it is not taken seriously, even if it does get reacted to so strongly, and neither are the myriad other actions which fall into "sexual assault," which the present accusations would probably better fall under. As seen under the other current "sexual scandals[sic]," anything less than rape is going to get rolled into "sexual misconduct" which just sounds like an "oops, sorry" while rape at least gets eyes and ears, even if it goes nowhere after that.

Britney Spears's videos (and lots of other pop) should be more an indictment of culture as pertaining to the sexualization of persons considered minor, not so much "What the hell is wrong with you?" as "Why do you all want to fuck her at her age (and your age)?" Well, maybe a little bit of "what the hell is wrong with you?!"

There is zero apparent external incentive for people to not trash accusers if they see it as a catch-22. Is there any person accused of sexual assault/misconduct who has not lashed out at their accuser in the ways we know how, but especially in court (whether legal or public opinion)? If there has been, then that has probably been construed as taking the high road while their fans go rabid, at least until it goes to court when you can argue that their lawyers are doing it with their implicit agreement. If it does not go to legal court, only then does someone who does not trash their accuser get that bit of credit for taking the Christ-like high road. But then the accusations are still out there and someone is going to keep them to read just in case anything else comes up later...
As to piling on? It is akin to "silence equals death;" silence equals complicity. This part is the virtue signalling, which happens in the wake of all crime revelations, where people who already knew try to bear off some of their responsibility. It is the part where there are only two sides of the issue and if you are not on one side explicitly, you must be on the other.

Joe said...

Hmmm. Men in dresses and men trying to fuck kids.

Seems a legit comparison.