Roberta Vinci deserves a lot of credit, but clearly winning the Grand Slam is extremely difficult even for someone of Serena Williams' stature.
Which is why I stand by Steffi Graf as GOAT. Chris, Martina, Monica, Martina H. all had years where they were also untouchable, yet none of them could do it, either.
Which is why I stand by Steffi Graf as GOAT. Chris, Martina, Monica, Martina H. all had years where they were also untouchable, yet none of them could do it, either.
It's almost like you'd have to be the greatest player of all time to pull it off.
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Yes, Steffi is clearly still the greatest of all time. Billie Jean King, in her recent interview with Katie Couric, stated that she believes that Serena is the GOAT because each generation of pros is better than the previous one. I don't really like that argument. It seems too simplistic, and it too easily bypasses the very real difficulty of comparing players across time. But what people often overlook when talking about Serena, apart from the issue of the Grand Slam when comparing her to Steffi, is that Steffi won all four majors at least four times, and so therefore, she was overall a better player on all surfaces, unlike Serena, who has won the French "only" three times.
And as one of Chris Evert's greatest fans, I'm happy to see that her record of 6 US Open titles still stands.
Full disclosure: I've never been a big fan of Serena since the 2009 US Open, for obvious reasons.
We'll never really know. #monica
Serena shares the record of 6 U.S. Open titles with Chris...
Hmm...not sure we can agree on that. Serena's longevity alone makes such a strong case for her status as GOAT. She's about to turn 34 and is still ruling the roost, while Steffi hung it up at 30 because of the likes of Serena and Venus nipping at her heels. Let's see how Serena recovers from this - and how many more grand slams she wins...
Brent: GOAT is definitely purely subjective, but I think you're mistaken as to whose "longevity" bolsters her case.
Serena is much more an Agassi to Graf's Navratilova/Evert. On paper, Serena turned pro in 1995 and is still No. 1 in the world 20 years later. But she played one tournament the first year, zero the second, and five the third. It wasn't until 1998 that she sort was full-time, but this was after the WTA limited how much young players could compete. Throughout the years she has sort of faded in and out of competition, whether it be because of injuries, family issues and, often, just lack of desire/focus. But I feel like it's more because Serena hasn't been fully focused on the game that she's still around, which I don't necessarily see as a plus.
Graf, on the other hand, turned pro at the end of 1982 and played nonstop until she was injured in 1997. She fought extremely hard through 1998 to rebuild her game and then won another major in 1999 -- when she was already way ahead of her peers -- and made the final of yet another, beating Venus in an epic quarterfinal (I might add). I don't agree that Steffi retired when she did because of players like Venus and Serena nipping at her heels. When she announced her decision after losing to Davenport, it seemed more like she had accomplished everything she had set out to -- and more -- and was in love and wanted to settle down and start a family after 16 grueling years on the tour.
Even if Serena surpasses Steffi in the majors, there's also this: Not only did Steffi win the Grand Slam, she's also won 107 tournaments to Serena's no Slam and just 69 titles. That's a huge difference and speaks to Graf's actual longevity.
Billie Jean could've won the Slam in 1972. And, as Billie said on her press rounds this week, Martina and Chris could've won the Slam too but sacrificed their Slam count to build women's professional tennis. Years of skipping Melbourne and Paris for the Slims and WTT.
Hi Kenneth, yes, I agree it's totally subjective. But the point you're making about longevity is moot because, as you pointed out, the age eligibility rules precluded Serena from competing regularly until 1998/9 when she was 16/17. Steffi was allowed to start as a 13-14 year old in '82. She got more years at the start of her career and Serena is getting more at the back-end. I love Steffi, but my point about Serena's longevity is her incredible ability to play at the top into her mid-30s. Most of Serena's "fading in and out" was due to injuries, medical issues, family tragedy and, yes, other interests. She's also had more competition in her era than Graf in her heyday. C'mon, Arantxa Sanchez-Vicario??
And say what you will, but Graf was already past her prime when she left. She somehow managed to win Roland Garros in '99 (because of Hingis' collapse) and then got thumped by Davenport in the Wimbledon final. After trying to claw her back in '98 and '99, she knew her time was over.
Steffi Graf the GOAT? She has a gigantic asterisk by her name and it's for Monica Seles' stabbing. She won about 20 tournaments in her absence, six which were Majors. Additionally, Martina and Chris would have most likely won the Grand Slam as well had they played the Aussie and French Opens as frequently as the players do now (Chris Evert more so than Navratilova) At the time, they were usually involved with WTT or skipping the French and Aussie opens all together. And Navratilova stands out as a more impressive player due to her doubles prowess as well. And no one EVER thinks Margaret Smith Court is the GOAT when she has the most Majors (mix of pre and Open era) and a Grand Slam (open era) as well. To me, it appears that Navratilova and Smith Court have the numbers on their side (total Major wins singles/ doubles/ mixed) with Graf having the Singles Majors record in the Open era stat in her pocket with a LARGE asterisk attached to it. I fully expect Serena to surpass both Court and Graf in Major counts and establish herself as the GOAT--currently she has 21 Majors for singles and 13 for doubles 2 for Mixed doubles plus well over 4 Gold medals for he combined efforts in singles and doubles at the Olympics as well. And don't get me wrong--I LOVE Steffi Graf (1988 was THE BEST YEAR and I am so glad to have seen it happen with my own eyes! How i miss her forehand!) but you have to be honest about those Monica-less years. We as tennis fans were truly robbed of one of the best rivalries that could have been GOLDEN!
Where I really think your argument is weakest is when you say "Throughout the years she has sort of faded in and out of competition, whether it be because of injuries, family issues and, often, just lack of desire/focus. But I feel like it's more because Serena hasn't been fully focused on the game that she's still around, which I don't necessarily see as a plus." That makes no sense to me. She's a professional. She determines when to play and when not to play (unless she was stabbed by a deranged player) and so to me you're arguing that she shouldn't be the GOAT--facts be damned if she were to break Graf's Open era record or Court's overall record--because in your eyes she lacked commitment? How does 21 Majors in singles and 13 in doubles equate a lack of commitment? Does Roger Federer lack commitment this decade since he's only won 2 slams in it as opposed to the 15 he won last decade? Many great tennis players took sabbaticals--some even had kids (Hi Evonne Goolagong!)--but I would NEVER say that showed a lack of commitment on their part because they took some needed rest or heaven forbid, a vacation like normal people. Furthermore, when you state Graf stopped playing because "...When she announced her decision after losing to Davenport, it seemed more like she had accomplished everything she had set out to -- and more -- and was in love and wanted to settle down and start a family after 16 grueling years on the tour." Well, that sounds like she lacked commitment to the sport at that time sooooooooo....................yeah. And nobody would EVER accuse Steffi Graf of lacking commitment. So there's that.
So for now, Steffi is the GOAT to many (not all as there are some die hard Navratiova fans who will always see her as #1 and some older folks will never give up on Maggie Smith Court) but I think Serena will overtake her and the only way she will do that is she will have to SHATTER the record. She will have to win like 25-26 Majors for many people to even see her as the GOAT. She somehow always has to be more than just the best to be considered even just an average champion. I think she'll do it. And I can't wait for the next generation's woman who will break Serena's record and dethrone her as well. You gotta love tennis! :)
PS LOVE YOUR BLOG! :)
>>. She's also had more competition in her era than Graf in her heyday. C'mon, Arantxa Sanchez-Vicario??<<
Brent: Ya got me there. That Monica Seles had nothing on Caroline Wozniacki :-)
@Sereasoning: GOAT is an opinion, so I'm not saying I"m "right." But I think you're taking what I said about lack of commitment out of context. I'm saying it contributed to Serena's longevity -- just as it did for Andre Agassi, which I don't see as a necessarily a good thing. It wasn't until Chris Evert wrote an open letter to her about how she only has one chance to do this that Serena seemed to buckle down and get serious. If anything, I'm disappointed she didn't apply herself all along -- I think she could have won two Grand Slams, a la Rod Laver. That would have been something to see, just as living through Steffi's Golden Slam was a true thrill and honor.
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