tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16333114.post4316634151436338699..comments2024-03-28T12:07:29.737-04:00Comments on kenneth in the (212): Women and Children First, GuysKenneth M. Walshhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01666275272819956774noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16333114.post-78595381280067054352017-11-13T13:17:43.135-05:002017-11-13T13:17:43.135-05:00@PowerBottom: Yes, you're definitely right abo...@PowerBottom: Yes, you're definitely right about the power situation. But in the case of George Takei, he was a complete nobody in 1981 so it really doesn't seem to be the issue there. And with Kevin Spacey groping people in bars, I thought it was just a general irritation that he'd done that -- but something anyone could do to you in a bar.Kenneth M. Walshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01666275272819956774noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16333114.post-66197834890490983872017-11-13T13:16:17.639-05:002017-11-13T13:16:17.639-05:00I wonder if the difference between what you said, ...I wonder if the difference between what you said, Kenneth, and what some of these stories are about is the power differential? Your friend in that car wasn't your boss, or a potential boss who could help your career (or end it if you rejected him) or a bigwig in your industry who could slander you to his industry friends and blacklist you. From what I can tell there wasn't even a physical power difference (unless he was a lot bigger than you). I wonder if there's something about this power difference that sets the experience in your head differently. Now you wonder, is this what you have to do to be successful? Did I just blow it? Will he not hire me and convince his friends not to hire me? Is this what I'm up against just to find jobs in my industry? If so, should I just drop out and try to do something else? Did I do something that made him think it was ok to treat me this way? If so, does that mean other guys will treat me this way, too? If I tell someone will I just come off as Power Bottomnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16333114.post-85592157723860550532017-11-13T13:15:10.051-05:002017-11-13T13:15:10.051-05:00@Joe: I agree, which is what I wrote in the first ...@Joe: I agree, which is what I wrote in the first paragraph, please. I’m referring to talking people into “realizing” they were victims when they never thought they were. And with this, convicting people — specifically frisky gay men — that things they once were OK with are suddenly beyond the pale.Kenneth M. Walshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01666275272819956774noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16333114.post-5849876508350533212017-11-13T09:57:49.542-05:002017-11-13T09:57:49.542-05:00The victim is the only one who has say over how it...The victim is the only one who has say over how it has affected them. If you don't feel victimized by something and are able to sluff it off, then so be it. If someone does feel victimized, does have a legitimate visceral reaction to something, whether it be in the moment, or years later, that's valid and should be honored. <br /><br />Joehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08139790755310666856noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16333114.post-73107017924924392732017-11-12T13:35:28.071-05:002017-11-12T13:35:28.071-05:00I believe that we are not seeking to be heteronorm...I believe that we are not seeking to be heteronormative. Out gay men have always played fast and loose. The point is the need to be out gay men. Why are they just attacking the famous.? If I were attracted to them none of the behaviors at Joel c’s place of employment would have been offputting. A gay bar is a gay bar. I also wonder where are all the fists and fingernails that could have been used on these attackers.<br />I have more difficulty that this conversation is so life and death now, when we elected a molester in chief a year ago. I am dumbfounded at when and where America chooses to have a conversation. The conversation now should be about “ resist and impeach” followed by restore.James Dwight Williamsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11259548676840307052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16333114.post-42282863203352050172017-11-12T11:06:22.013-05:002017-11-12T11:06:22.013-05:00@Joel C: I’m sorry to hear you went through all of...@Joel C: I’m sorry to hear you went through all of that. Thanks for sharing.Kenneth M. Walshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01666275272819956774noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16333114.post-85650425621930441542017-11-12T10:59:47.107-05:002017-11-12T10:59:47.107-05:00With the gay culture that is a fine line between t...With the gay culture that is a fine line between the sexual rules (bathhouse, cruising...etc) and sexual harassment & assault. On 4 different occasions things got very uncomfortable for me while working in a gay bar. I felt rather humiliated having one guy come up being me in the DJ booth and shove his hand down the front of my pants to grope me, on a different occasion have a guy undo my pants again while in the DJ booth because he wanted to give me a blow job, plus the bar's co-owner breathing down my neck while grinding my ass and the drag queen grabbing my ass saying "I want a piece of that". At the time I tried to brush it off as it being part of the "gay way" or even drunken behavior, but nothing I could think of would justify that. DJing was a job I loved but due to the climate I just couldn't work at that bar anymore. At the same time I had several other things happen in my life that I used to justify leaving the DJ job. Some of the other things that happened in life also caused me to bury these thoughts for over 10 years. These memories that have suddenly emerged feel very vivid and real again at times like they just happened. Maybe it's because I didn't deal with the issues at the time but when you have other things happen like a parent dying and then finding out one's partner was into teenage boys, one's comfort level of behaviors at the bar seem trite.<br />Randommess_of_mehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03483094509745335088noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16333114.post-50038566148267397032017-11-12T09:45:09.653-05:002017-11-12T09:45:09.653-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Samhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08713972514003681234noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16333114.post-33961193853176385352017-11-12T09:26:27.043-05:002017-11-12T09:26:27.043-05:00Well said Kenneth....
Well said Kenneth....<br /><br />Izzonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16333114.post-75199222870832507952017-11-12T09:14:04.334-05:002017-11-12T09:14:04.334-05:00"What has been traumatic is reading that prea..."What has been traumatic is reading that preachers are calling for my death from the pulpit. What has been traumatic is seeing friends entrapped by cops and put through an unjust justice system. What has been traumatic has been being fired from jobs for being gay. Now those are real traumas. "<br />"<br />Well said! jaragonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14424886904148460509noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16333114.post-43657675978391465782017-11-12T00:13:03.690-05:002017-11-12T00:13:03.690-05:00I agree completely. It's the culture of shame...I agree completely. It's the culture of shame and victimhood that's causing the trauma in most of these events, not the incident itself. <br /><br />I've never felt that someone elses' inappropriate behavior was my fault or that it reflected on me - so it's never been traumatic when men acted badly. <br /><br />I'm not talking about getting physically beaten or fucked at knife-point here, that would definitely have been traumatic. But a lot of stuff that would currently ruin a famous person's career has been done to me, and it's all just unimportant. It's the stuff of anecdotes, not nightmares. <br /><br />What has been traumatic is reading that preachers are calling for my death from the pulpit. What has been traumatic is seeing friends entrapped by cops and put through an unjust justice system. What has been traumatic has been being fired from jobs for being gay. Now those are real traumas. <br />Edgar_Carpenterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13039202616469172686noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16333114.post-59103816680349302902017-11-11T23:49:05.361-05:002017-11-11T23:49:05.361-05:00right there with you buddy!right there with you buddy!Michael Diamondhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11691342088143356082noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16333114.post-52295653894323924412017-11-11T22:27:21.786-05:002017-11-11T22:27:21.786-05:00Agreed 100%, but it's difficult to express in ...Agreed 100%, but it's difficult to express in a written forum without sounding dismissive. Right? It's even weird re-reading the words sometimes.James Greenleehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05236516115418262727noreply@blogger.com